Palestinian Education and Resistance with Dr. Riyam Kafri AbuLaban and Steve Tamari

Dr. Riyam Kafri AbuLaban, a former principal at Ramallah Friends School and a writer from Palestine, shares her insights on world-building amidst conflict and the complexities of raising children under occupation. 

Joining Dwight is Steve Tamari, a Palestinian-American Quaker and historian who offers reflections on the ongoing genocide in Palestine as part of a larger history of colonialism. Steve challenges listeners to understand the power of conscience and integrity in facing the brokenness of our world.

Key Highlights:

• Primary Guest:
  Dr. Riyam Kafri Abu Laban writes personal essays, poetry, short stories, and articles on Palestine, motherhood, and education. Riyam sees writing as "the tangible outcome of thinking" and believes the first sentence requires the most courage. She describes writing as an incredible gift, a way to bring ideas to life—whether technical, creative, or fictional.

Riyam lives in Ramallah, West Bank, Palestine. Follow her on Instagram and LinkedIn.

• Second Guest Offering:
  Steve Tamari is a Palestinian-American Quaker and historian. Steve reflects on the ongoing genocide in Palestine, framing it within the history of colonialism. He calls on Quakers and people of conscience to take action against systemic violence. He shared these remarks during his presentation, "Light Within and Light Without," at the 2024 Stephen G. Cary Memorial Lecture.

He poses a thought-provoking question: "How do you strive to close the gap between the light within and the world outside so that our lives may be genuinely integrated and made whole?"

Special Music

In this episode, you will hear the song Babylon Breeze by the Sada Trio. Ahmad Al Khatib, Pedram Shahlai, and Feras Sharestan are virtuoso musicians from three parts of the Middle East who now live in Sweden. Ahmad Al Khatib was born in 1974 in a Palestinian refugee camp in Irbid, Jordan. He started his musical journey at an early age. In the Sada Trio, the three musicians keep the Middle Eastern music tradition alive, pairing traditional instruments with original compositions.

The transcript for this episode is available on https://pendlehillseed.buzzsprout.com/

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The Seed is a project of Pendle Hill, a Quaker center, open to all, for Spirit-led learning, retreat, and community. We’re located in Wallingford, Pennsylvania, on the traditional territory of the Lenni-Lenape people.

Follow us @pendlehillseed on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter, and subscribe to The Seed wherever you get your podcasts to get episodes in your library as they're released. To learn more, visit pendlehill.org/podcast.

Online Quaker Worship with Dwight: Dwight will attend the Pendle Hill online Quaker worship on the last Friday of the month from 8:30 to 9:10 AM (Eastern Time). Visit Pendle Hill Online Worship for details.

This project is made possible by the generous support of the Thomas H. & Mary Williams Shoemaker Fund.

Transcript

>> Dr. Riyam Kafri Abu Laban: 0:04

Can I protect my children or not? And that's a question I struggle with all the time. And I know that my husband does as a parent, as a father as well. It's very difficult. It's becoming increasingly difficult as well. In the morning.

>> Dwight Dunstan: 0:30

You'Re listening to the seed conversations for radical Hope, a Pendle Hill podcast where Quakers and other seekers come together to explore visions of the world growing through the cracks of our broken systems. I'm your host, Dwight Dunstan. For season five, we're focusing our attention on world building. It is easy to point out all that is wrong today, but what is the world we are organizing ourselves to see in the future? What creative visions of community motivate us to co create future systems filled with values of cooperation, reciprocity and love? And how can we begin to live in that new reality right now? On today's show, Ryam Khafre Abulaban, a graduate of the Ramallah Friends School who later became principal of the upper School, is here with us today. Doctor Riem crafts personal essays, poetry and short stories, along with insightful articles on topics like Palestine, motherhood and education. She is constantly exploring the question, what does it mean to be human in todays world? She believes writing is more than just words on a page, its the tangible outcome of deep thinking. For her, the sentence takes the most courage, but its a privilege to bring ideas to life. With a PhD in chemistry, Rayan began as a research scientist, but quickly found her true passion in working with people. She spent years in education, first as an assistant principal of chemistry and founding faculty member at Al Quds Bar College in Palestine, and later as the upper School principal at the Ramallah Friends School. Quaker values have shaped her life and faith and are central to her work. Reyam lives in Ramallah in the West Bank, Palestine, where she continues to inspire and shape the future of education. Welcome to the show.

>> Dr. Riyam Kafri Abu Laban: 2:34

Thank you.

>> Dwight Dunstan: 2:35

Yes. Um, and, you know, here at the top of our time together, I have to shout out our connector, um, a Pendle Hill employee, Mark, um, who is the night keeper there, does so much there in terms of welcoming people to the community, making them feel at home, a sense of belonging, and who you work with, um, during the pandemic at Ramallah Friends.

>> Dr. Riyam Kafri Abu Laban: 3:02

Yeah, Mark is, um, an amazing educator. He came to the Ramallah Friends schools as the deputy principal right before, about, uh, two years before the pandemic. And we, um, I always say that the educated, you know, we survived. We're pandemic leaders, educational leaders, and we survived the pandemic at the School. And he helped lead the School at a very, um, difficult and historic time for rfs at that time.

>> Dwight Dunstan: 3:31

M wow. What's it feel like to be you.

>> Dr. Riyam Kafri Abu Laban: 3:35

Today on the outside, uh, looking in? Uh, I'm a very busy person, and I'm someone who's running from one place to the other all day, most of the days of the week, including the weekends, because I'm a working mother and a wife, and I have responsibilities inside and outside the house. On the outside, it looks like this person is really having a difficult time balancing everything out. But on the inside, I would say that this is probably the most grounded I have been. I think it's part of growing up and getting older. And when I was in my twenties and thirties, I would hear that your forties really is when you, you really finally get to know yourself. And I think that that's very true. I also think that on a spiritual level, the last couple of years have been a huge spiritual, uh, journey for me that helped me look inside on who I am and what I want to do and what is important to me. Despite the fact that my schedule, my calendar looks really crazy, I am at peace with who I am finally, and I don't compromise who I am anymore. I don't apologize for being who I am. It feels good to be in my skin these days.

>> Dwight Dunstan: 4:50

Um, I heard in that response an awareness of the journey to get where you are. I want to do a little bit of time traveling because I'm curious about what your life was like growing up.

>> Dr. Riyam Kafri Abu Laban: 5:06

Well, I grew up in Ramallah. I was born in Amman, uh, Jordan. Like most palestinian families post 1967, my father found himself without the ability to return home after the West bank was annexed by the israeli government at the time. And my father met m my mother in Jordan, and they got married there, and I was born there. But then, through a lot of suffering, I should say, uh, he was able to return home. And so I had the privilege of growing up here in Palestine, in Ramallah. I belong to an educated and very nuclear family. Uh, for most of our lives, it was just my mom, my dad and my siblings, my brother and my sister. I'm the eldest child, so I am the trailblazer, and I am the person that, uh, sets the standards. And so a, uh, lot of responsibility came with this role. Um, and it took me a long time to understand why I am the way I am, and then kind of figure out that that's the reason, because I'm the eldest child and I'm the eldest, and I'm a daughter. Um, and so, uh, there are stereotypical roles of what I should look like and sound like. And then I had a father who believed that girls are like boys and can do whatever they want to do. And so he never separated us in that sense. And so, and he made sure that we felt empowered. In fact, I think he empowered me and my sister far beyond, uh, my brother, and made sure that we were getting places. And so, and, uh, I belong to a family of educators. My great grandmother was the first female principal in the Ottoman Empire, in Tulkarem, in the city of Tulquerim, in the west bank, so, and she's half lebanese, half turkish, so she came here and got married here and had children here, so. And my grandmother was a teacher, my mother is a teacher, and my father was a professor.

>> Dwight Dunstan: 7:15

So it runs in the family is what you're telling us.

>> Dr. Riyam Kafri Abu Laban: 7:19

When I was, yes, and when I was, um, in 10th grade, my Friends were. We were talking, we were talking. And one of my Friends, uh, his father had an engineering company, a contracting company, who was going to be an engineer and worked with his dad, and someone else was a businessman and belonged to a business, uh, you know, his father was a businessman. They kind of all looked at me like, what are you going to do, open a teacher union in the future? And, um, then I became the principal. So they were like, oh, that's there go. You're going to raise our kids now, right?

>> Dwight Dunstan: 7:56

Right. Yeah.

>> Dr. Riyam Kafri Abu Laban: 7:58

But so I grew up in a home that really was open and allowed us to explore many questions on our own, but very much palestinian, very much deeply rooted into the palestinian, um, context, uh, and the palestinian plight. Uh, uh, and who saw education as a form of resistance to occupation. Uh, so this is the kind of family I belong to. On my mother's side is a long line of poets and writers, and on my father's side is a long line of scientists. So I was born of both worlds. Um, and my dad always said, oh, you can do chemistry, a chemist can be a writer, but a writer could never be a chemist. So I ended up, and I was good in both. And so I ended up studying chemistry, and that's how I ended up in chemistry. Um, uh, but I also started writing poetry at the age of seven. Um, and that's the thing that now looking back, that should have been really my sign. This is where you're being called. Um, but ultimately, I think because education is such a human thing, that's where I ended up. That's how I ended up being in education is because I can do the science, but I also wanted to really be with people and connect with people and help people. And so that's how I ended up in education. So other than that, I witnessed the first uprising, the first intifada. I was, uh, in second grade when it started. I stood witness to the first Gulf war, um, the Oslo accords, the second, uh, intifada, and of course, all of it. So my life, my personal life is really peppered by the palestinian history and the palestinian, uh, historical moments that are, um, have not really served Palestinians in the best way.

>> Dwight Dunstan: 10:14

Yeah. There's something poetic about your chemistry and your writing life. Um, that, yeah, I would love to just hear you share a little bit more of how you. Cause I imagine people hear that and think about two sides of the brain working, or those are two people who would never talk to each other in a room, the chemist and the poet. Right. And here you are in Conversation in one body with these two parts of who you are and just how you've come to understand those parts of you, and perhaps how it helps you to understand on a larger context just, um. Yeah, your life and the life of loved ones in your vicinity there.

>> Dr. Riyam Kafri Abu Laban: 11:07

Well, I'm not the. I think that, uh, the chemist and the artist combination are. There are many examples of them in the real world. Um, uh, Rahmaninov was a chemist and he was a musician. Um, and I think there's something about chemistry that, uh, really lends itself to art, because it is a very creative process. I studied organic chemistry and I studied design of anti HIV drugs. So I had to, um, you know, I worked. It was almost like you're a graphic, uh, designer, uh, except for molecules and enzymes. I did the creative part of chemistry. I didn't do the hard work, analytical part, I couldn't do that, actually. That kind of drove me insane. Um, so from the get go, I think that the part of chemistry that, that really talk to me was the part that was creative, the synthetic part, the part that required imagination and required you to really think outside the box. Um, in my real life, I love being the chemist because I can approach almost everything from a scientific perspective, and I can give you a scientific fact about almost anything you talk to me about. And, uh, you know, and that kind of gets on my sister's nerves and it kind of. But it was the best thing when you're a prince School principal going through a pandemic, because I completely understood viruses because that was, you know, this is what I spent my PhD studying, viruses. So I um, they are. And there's. There are times where they are struggling. You know, these two Personas are struggling against each other. And I took. It took me a long time to reconcile that. I am, um, many things. I'm not just one thing. I think that we spend most of our lives being told that you have to be one thing, you have to be good at one thing, and do really great things with it and save the world. But the truth is, and I think this has. This has become more popular in the last couple of years, is that we can't be one thing. And, uh, creativity is something that we should be. Even if we are finance officers at a bank, there's a creative part of us, because that's so human. That's the one thing that we were given that's different than all other species on. On earth, is the ability to create, um, to create art, to write, to, um, think, and, uh, do and innovate. So I think that creativity is definitely there for all of us. And it took me a while to say, well, I am a chemist and an educator, but I am a writer, and I want to write, and I work. My colleague at Anaisak is an engineer, and he's a, uh, three time published novelist. Uh, and his novels are out of this world. And when you read them, you're like, is this really the same person that I see every day at work? But he's also had to, you know, so this is a conversation that is ongoing for me, that if you're creative and you are a scientist, and then you can be an artist as well. So, um, yeah, it's a struggle, but it's something. It's a Conversation that's ongoing for me.

>> Dwight Dunstan: 14:45

Yeah. One of the things you mentioned in your story, just about how you grew up, um, and I mentioned a little bit about the place where you are in Palestine being a part of the shaping of who you are and your family story. And you mentioned being alive, um, during the first intifada, and thinking about how that shaped you. And I'm thinking about your intention and how serious you take your responsibility of raising your children in the midst of conflict, in the midst of violence. And young people are really. One of the things I really valued about School, working in schools, is the ways that young people more or less refuse to be lied to. Right. And they're trying to make sense of things, and they're very honest about what they see and what they feel. And I'm just curious how it's been for you and communicating and talking to and making space for feelings or thoughts that your children have in this time in Palestine. Because here in the US, we're responding to things there in a specific kind of way. But there's so much distance from the violence, from the genocide, from what we see and what we feel, um, or hear about, rather. And I'm just curious of what it's been like for you, the conversations you've been having and if they connect in any way to how you remember your own, the adults in your own upbringing, speaking on things that are happening when you were younger.

>> Dr. Riyam Kafri Abu Laban: 16:39

First of all, I didn't realize at the beginning of the war, uh, last year, I didn't really consider how much, uh, they hear us talk when my husband and I speak. I have colleagues in Gaza, and this was the first time, uh, that I had colleagues in Gaza. And our organization has an office there, we have beneficiaries there, we have facilitators and teachers that we work with. Um, and suddenly they were under fire. And, uh, October 13 was particularly a difficult day because almost all of my colleagues moved from the north to the south and they became. Suddenly they became refugees, um, and they were in shelters. And for a long time, we didn't know how to get in touch with them. And it was, you know, it was very, very difficult. And, um, I think that my approach to talking to, you know, I answer questions when they come up. Um, I don't really necessarily try to bring things up to them because I think it's around them and they're much more aware than we think. And that's. I think what I wanted to say is that I was really surprised at how much they were listening to what I'm saying and that they actually specifically asked about the names of the people that I kept repeating, you know, so and so is still in the north. And then, like, a couple of days later, I'd say, did you talk to him? Is he okay? Is his family okay? And I was. I was really surprised how impressionable that was. Um, I think that my husband and I have taken a, ah, very open conversation. You know, if they ask, we answer and we talk about what we saw in our childhood. Um, but we are also. I'm m not going to lie to you, we're very cautious. We try to shelter them as much as we can. If we can keep them protected for one more, two more years or three more years before they have to really deal with the absolutely utter violent reality that awaits them, then I want to do that. I want to preserve that for them. Um, because I'm worried my children could be stopped anywhere in the situation as it is right now in the West bank and where we are and even in Gaza, is really. There's no innocent civilian. We're all treated like we're moving targets. As a mother, I am so worried that my children would be subjected to such unjustified violence. When I was in the US, I always spoke about how palestinian mothers are no different than mothers of black children or brown children in the US, where they feel like their child could get shot anytime. This is exactly what it feels like. So for our listeners, who really can't imagine, it's exactly that. It's you feeling like your child could go to school and not return. This is what really ails almost every single palestinian mother that lives in the West bank, in Gaza. It's a whole other story because now you go to bed hoping that if you're going to die, that the whole family goes with you so that you don't leave behind a child. That's literally what's happening. But for. So I try to shelter them. I want to protect them, but I also answer questions because I want them to be part of this society and part of this community. And, um, you know, in this day and age, there's really no disconnection from the world. They have access to media and social media and they hear their peers, and so they're acutely aware of what's happening, um, around them.

>> Dwight Dunstan: 20:23

M. Yeah, I'm breathing into that reflection as I think about the training that my parents would give me in leaving the house. Like, you know, we talk a lot about in the US and Black families. Uh, I can remember a number of my peers and friends having similar conversations about how to behave when you leave the house. That was around that I didn't understand because at the time, all of the realities or all of the ways that, uh, yeah, those conversations or directives were infused with anxiety and fear, but also, yeah, uh, rooted in reality and protective of. Here's how you move in space so that you don't experience violence against your body. And, yeah, it was just something really was opened up for me. As you reflected on, you know, this is a conversation that you're aware of, that you also have had to think about and have as you. As you move through space and as you once again are in this role and have this responsibility and intention to raise your children, that. That being a part of it. You know, this conversation around keeping safe, um, as a part of. A. Part of the journey as well.

>> Dr. Riyam Kafri Abu Laban: 22:14

But you know what's heartbreaking is that I no longer trust that what I say would really protect them. Um, because the situation has gotten worse and I just, I'm not sure that anything I do will protect them at some point. And that's really, that's something that, you know, to go to bed with is really heavy for a mother to carry. It's a huge burden. Um, so yeah, I am concerned. The stories that we're hearing coming out of um, um, of Gaza, coming out of detention centers and prisons, uh, for Palestinians are just uh, terrifying to say the least. And the violence, just the overall violence. As a mom, yes, I go to bed with the burden of can I protect my children or not? And that's a question I struggle with all the time. And I know that my husband does as a parent, as a father as well. So yeah, uh, it's very difficult. It's becoming increasingly difficult as well.

>> Dwight Dunstan: 23:24

Yeah. How m has, from your vantage point, the role of community supported you in the, in these times, in these restless nights. I know that, yeah. In my own life and experience, when I'm wrestling with things, there's a way where having someone with a shared experience or having someone who I know is a witness or has agreed to accompany me around uh, a challenge or. Yeah. My restlessness that has helped to um, help me at least carry the load. It doesn't mean the load is not still there, but there's a way that the load gets shared and carried across many Hands. And I'm curious, just the way that community has shown up for you or maybe you stepping in and being community for other folks has, has, yeah. Been maybe a solve, been supportive. Um, yeah. Maybe infused possibility into your life.

>> Dr. Riyam Kafri Abu Laban: 24:46

Yeah. Um. So uh, Palestine is also, the palestinian society is also a family society. So extended family plays a major role in our lives. Um, my children have ten uncles and four aunts. Ah, yeah, four aunts. And um, so they have a huge network of cousins that support them and support us and are there to help us and kind of really be there. They also have. On my mom's side, on my side, my mother and my sister are here and my brother um, is living in Europe. So our close knit community in that sense has been incredibly supportive and has always been, you know, my mom is um, my mother actually during summer break will come and stay with them so that they're not home alone, even though they're almost 13. So uh, and it's normal here, you know, at twelve you can leave kids for, for a while and they're up late and they're sleeping. And so, you know, you're, for most of the day, not really aware of what's going on. So she's actually made an effort to come at least three days a week while they were on summer break so that they're not home alone, so that if anything happens, there's an adult in the building. Um, but I also have neighbors, and I have friends who are mothers as well, who we've come close together. Um, community is really what, what, um, made Palestinians survive all these years. And we're very close knit and it's a very small country. And, um, if you come here and you walk down the street, you're going to meet at least almost, you know, if you meet one person and then you walk down the street further, you'll probably meet their cousin or their grandparents or friend of theirs who's going to School with them. This is how close knit we are. And so, um, and so, and this is not just in our city. This actually extends, it's like one big, small, one big community that's really close knit together. That's how it feels, because we marry from each other. And, um, family continues to be the one unit that brings everybody together. So it's, um. Yeah, so I think friends, family, um, uh, my girlfriends, who are moms of children of similar age, um, this has always been in Conversation about what's next and what to do, and then fellow educators that I've been in touch with on a professional level to talk about what can we do to change, um, the future of this country through education as well. So this has been a source of support for me as well.

>> Dwight Dunstan: 27:45

Yeah, thank you for that. Yeah, I just hear a constellation of folks that show up and show up for one another. And the practice of healthy co dreaming, co building, really interdependent, is a part of the culture, palestinian culture, the season where exploring the theme of world building. I'm, um, curious of the thoughts and reflections that come to mind when you hear the words world building. What that means to you. What core does it strike?

>> Dr. Riyam Kafri Abu Laban: 28:17

You know, I was in a workshop, a full day workshop the other day, talking about how we would build, um, how we would build Palestine through a better educational system post genocide. We dare to dream of a day when this is all going to end. Um, and I have to admit that it's hard to think about world building for a very long time, uh, since the start of the war. Um, and I don't want. I want to be careful to say that suffering in Palestine didn't start on October 7. And so we just need to make sure that this is clear that this has been an ongoing, um, situation for over 70 years. And so displacement, dispossession, it's always been there. So it's important to say that. But the last, I think, eight months have been particularly pronounced, and there's really a genocide, an active genocide happening. So when all of this is happening, to think about building, to think about, even on a professional level, to think about, oh, we need to educate the kids in Gaza. Um, and at first, my first three months, I was like, oh, forget it. I can't even imagine having a conversation about this because people are really struggling to find clean water and medicine, and you want me to pick up the phone and call one of my colleagues and say, hey, let's get kids together in a tent and get them educated, because really, that's the only way we're going to build a country. It was really hard. But then the inspiration really came from Gaza itself, um, when I dared to start this conversation with my colleagues, you know, and because, you know, the. You know, the scene, you know, my colleague, who's my senior, kind of said, we have to. We have to do this, you know, otherwise we're just gonna sit here and watch this happening and keep saying, this is really. This is the situation, and there's nothing we can do. And so when I asked my colleagues in Gaza, uh, to go down and just ask parents, children, would you go? You know, if we put together a tent, like 2 meters away from here and said, come learn math, would you come? And the answer was emphatically, yes, we would. And now. And do it yesterday, not tomorrow, not next week. We need it. And that's when I realized that building a country and building the world is something that has to continue and has to happen at the ugliest moments, even at the darkest moments in history, there will always be people who will build because they are thinking of the next day. Um, and this world that we borrowed from our children, because I believe that you borrow your country and youre and your world from the children needs to be given back to them when it's time for them to borrow it from their own children, um, a little more.

>> Dwight Dunstan: 31:26

Compassionate, uh.

>> Dr. Riyam Kafri Abu Laban: 31:28

Uh, with a little more justice. So conversations about this and just kind of realizing that a one sided story could never be the truth. Um, and, you know, the truth, you know, even think about it in School, when you have five kids who are fighting and they come into your office and each one of them has a different story, and the truth kind of sits somewhere in the middle, and you kind. And when you listen to all of these perspectives, you find, um, a connection, a point of connection that you can from there start resolving and from there start healing. And so if the world continues to have conversations that are, um, monochromatic in many ways, and, you know, and I really say this with intention, because there are very white, privileged conversations that are happening, if the world continues to have that, then we're not going to find the truth. This is, you know, you're not listening to other perspectives. So that's my view, I think. I don't know if that answers your question, but that's my view, really, on, um, world building?

>> Dwight Dunstan: 32:39

Oh, it absolutely does. Absolutely. And just holding the brilliance and realness and honesty and both, like, the hopefulness and possibility, but also the uncertainty of it all. Um, and I'm so glad that you brought the children back in. You know, we've been talking about young people this whole time. I really, really will be thinking about that idea of borrowing this land, the life, you know, uh, from the young people, and really giving that back to them. And it's so obvious to me through what you've committed your life to, the ways you followed your vocation and calling, and also from the ways you speak about your own nurturing and raising of your children, that you're really living out that idea of borrowing this land and giving it back with more compassion, with more justice. So I just want to say thank you for your time here on the podcast today, and thank you for the way that you live and letting your life speak. It's been such a, uh, such an honor to share this space with you.

>> Dr. Riyam Kafri Abu Laban: 34:04

Thank you. Thank you so much for this Conversation. It's been amazing. Thank you.

>> Dwight Dunstan: 34:12

I'm so grateful for such a rich conversation with Doctor Ram Khafre, and I'm deeply moved by her insights of the power of education and imagination in shaping a better future. If you want to hear more from Rayam, she's also featured in a recent mini episode of the seed, where she talks about food in Palestine, reflecting on both the pain and the power of refugees sharing food from the places they've been displaced. Sadeena M. Now, as we continue exploring this season's theme of world building and imagination, we shift our focus to the intersections of history, identity and conscience. Our second guest, Steve Tamari, is a palestinian american Quaker whose life and work are deeply influenced by these themes. Steve gave the 2024 Stephen G. Carey Memorial lecture titled light within and light, the personal and political in the formation of a palestinian american Quaker identity. He is emeritus professor of Middle east and islamic history at Ah Southern Illinois University, Edwardsville, and his personal journey is deeply rooted in his Quaker faith, shaped by Scattergood Friends School and the legacy of his parents, who met at Pendle Hill. Steve challenges us, uh, to understand the ongoing genocide in Palestine as part of a much longer and complex history of colonialism. He calls on Quakers and people of conscience to not only recognize this, but to take action, to hold governments and corporations accountable for the violence embedded in the very fabric of our world.

>> Steve Tamari: 36:33

This is a time for Quakers and people of conscience to understand that the genocide is rooted in a long history of colonialism and colonial racism. The zionist state is a relative late comer to this historical trajectory, but the consequences of its founding, its history, and its war on Palestine is the logical conclusion of the premises of its creation. I'm going to say that again. Um, the zionist state is a relative late comer to this historical trajectory, but the consequences of its founding, its history, and its war on Palestinians is the logical conclusion of the premises of its creation. Genocide is, in fact, is a logical conclusion to the creation of the zionist state. Unequivocal us support is likewise rooted in a parallel history. The states, the corporations and the institutions that facilitate this violence are embedded in the very fabric of the broken world in which we live. Change depends first on a radical understanding of how we got here. That's one lesson from light without another is that a better world is possible. This requires redoubling efforts to hold governments, corporations and institutions accountable. Citizens pushing city councils to pass ceasefire resolutions, dock workers refusing to unload israeli ships, students agitating for universities to divest from companies that profit from war, and crowds descending on Washington, DC are demonstrating in town squares are just a few examples of how we can move from understanding to action. What usually makes us move, however, is that, um, tinge of conscience, that light within which inspired the kind of integrity my mother exemplified, um, which came in part from the integration of faith and works that drew her to these words, which I'm repeating now by Mildred Young. It is in striving to close that gap between our faith and our works, between what we know by religious insight and what we do in our secular lives, that I see the possibility of at once deepening our insight and gathering our scattered forces. So might our lives be integrated, made whole, made whole in the true ground of our being? Mary Ellen underlined that passage twice. Once in red, once in blue. I, uh, end with that quote, which is a call to keep our integrity as we move through a broken world, a world that seems to be more broken than ever. Here's a query I'll close with. Um, that it's probably something we've repeated and asked ourselves again and again, but it deserves repetition. In a time like this, how do you strive to close that gap, uh, between the light within and the world outside so our lives may be genuinely integrated and made whole?

>> Dwight Dunstan: 39:52

Steve reminds us that real change begins with a radical understanding of how we got here. He challenges each of us with a query. In a time like this, how do you strive to close the gap between the light within and the world outside so our lives may be genuinely integrated and made whole? In a time like this, how do you strive to close that gap between the light within and the world outside so our lives may be genuinely integrated and made whole? Friend if you're having a similar experience as I am, you might be feeling inspired, heartbroken, angry, confused. There may be some hints of hopelessness, despair. There may be new or renewed inspiration, vitality. However, this conversation and the reflections from Steve's lecture are sitting with you. I first want to invite you to take a breath in and out and give to yourself before looking outside of yourself, some grace, some care, and some softness around. However you are feeling in this moment, you might be wondering what next in this entire season, as we invite guests to speak about world building and what that means to them, some of them will offer up a blueprint and next step for us to take, or at least to try, while others will invite us to sit with what's alive in us, uh, after their sharings, reflections, poetry readings, stories. And so in this moment, I want to invite you to discern of a next step for you that feels right sized for where you are right now. Don't overextenden. Dont sidestep the feelings that might be alive for you right now. Perhaps you might settle into some worship and stillness, and I invite you into the next full bodied. Yes, that is becoming apparent for you. And if it will be helpful to be in Conversation with me or others, feel free to email podcast@pendlehill.org with your next step, questions about your next step or any other leadings becoming more clear for you in this time. Thank you for showing up and spending some time with me today. You can hear Steve's full lecture along with other excellent talks on the Pendle Hill YouTube channel@YouTube.com at pendlehillusa. And don't forget to follow doctor Rayon Khafre on Instagram to stay connected with her incredible work. The seed is a project of Pendle Hill, a Quaker center open to all for spirit led learning, retreat and community. We're located in Wallingford, Pennsylvania, on the traditional territory of the Lenny Lenape people. Many of our guests are teachers, leaders, and speakers. At Pendle Hill. We host retreats, workshops, and lectures all year round. For a full list of these upcoming education opportunities, visit pendlehill.org learn. This episode was produced and edited by Peterson Toscano Peterson. Uh is also one of the hosts of the Quakers Today podcast. Other production assistants came from Lucas Meyer Lee, a Quaker voluntary service fellow. Our theme music is the I rise project by Reverend Retta Morgan and Bennett Kuhn, produced by Astronautical Records. You also heard some music that I produced. I'm glad I could share a little of that part of me with you. Other music comes from from epidemicsound.com. this includes the beautiful track at the end of my talk with Ream by the Sada trio. This is a group of musicians with roots in three parts of the Middle east. One of the members, Ahmad al Khatib. Was born in 1974 in a palestinian refugee camp in Jordan. Learn more about Ahmad and the Sada trio at Ahmad al katibmusic.com. the seed podcast is made possible by the generous support of the Thomas H. And Mary Williams Shoemaker Fund. Thank you. You can stay in touch by following us at pendlehillseed on all social media platforms or by emailing us podcastsindlehill.org dot podcastendlehill.org dot thanks to Pendle Hill's daily worship time, you and I can worship together once a month. I attend this virtual Quaker meeting on the last Friday of the month. The worship

begins at 08: 45:17

30 a.m. um eastern time and lasts about 40 minutes. To access this virtual worship space via Zoom, visit pendlehill.org explore worship if you're finding these conversations meaningful, consider supporting our work financially. Simply head over to pendlehill.org donate. You can also support by letting people in your life know about our podcast. We want to connect with other folks like you, so please subscribe, rate, and review us on your podcast platform. These seeds could not be planted without you.

>> Dr. Riyam Kafri Abu Laban: 46:29

You know, I'm a mother, so my headphones are usually hijacked by the teenagers in this house. I think they were not properly charged. Uh.