Lisa Graustein & Dwight Dunston on Love, Power, and Art

In this special mini-episode of The Seed: Conversations for Radical Hope, host Dwight Dunston reconnects with guest Lisa Graustein to explore how art, love, and power intertwine in daily life. Together, they reflect on the creative process as an act of resistance, connection, and renewal.

Dwight shares his newest creative project—an emerging genre he calls “Anthropocene Hip-Hop,” a musical form that bridges the natural world, social justice, and lyrical artistry. “I’ve been a hip-hop artist for years,” Dwight says, “but this moment calls for music that recognizes our interconnectedness—with each other, the stars, and the earth itself.”

You will hear one of his original songs. 

Lisa, a potter and educator, describes her recent community projects, including an art show inspired by Octavia Butler’s Parable of the Sower and a new installation called Night Lights, which uses ceramics to create vessels that radiate light through perforated clay forms. “To me,” Lisa reflects, “there’s something metaphorically powerful about a bowl with holes in it. That’s what love feels like—a container that holds, but with space for things to move through.”

Through their conversation, Dwight and Lisa consider how love and power, like light and clay, must move freely to remain alive. Lisa says, “If we actually saw every human being as our sibling, every social problem we have would disappear.” Dwight responds, “That’s our human family—to see each other as resource, as places to cultivate belonging and hope.”

Together, they remind us that recommitting to love—through creativity, justice, and everyday care—is itself a radical act.

Guest Bio
A lifelong Quaker, Lisa Graustein is a former middle and high school teacher who now works as a facilitator and trainer in diversity, equity, and inclusion. She has led Young Friends programs, worshiped with the full spectrum of Quakers, co-facilitated Quaker Coalition for Uprooting Racism cohorts, and helped start Three Rivers Meeting. An artist and solo mom, she lives on Neponset Band of the Massachusett land, colonially known as Boston. Lisa’s pottery and art can be found on Instagram at @LisaGraustein.

NEW Video Version available at Pendle Hill's YouTube page.

The transcript for this episode is available on https://pendlehillseed.buzzsprout.com/
----
The Seed is a project of Pendle Hill, a Quaker center open to all for Spirit-led learning, retreat, and community. We’re located in Wallingford, Pennsylvania, on the traditional territory of the Lenni-Lenape people.

Help us to grow The Seed!
Share your thoughts with us through our listener survey.

Follow us @PendleHillUSA on Facebook and Instagram and subscribe to The Seed wherever you get your podcasts to get episodes in your library as they're released. To learn more, visit pendlehill.org/podcast.

Online Quaker Worship with Dwight: Dwight will attend the Pendle Hill online Quaker worship on the last Friday of the month from 8:30 to 9:10 AM (Eastern Time). Visit Pendle Hill Online Worship for details.

This project is made possible by the generous support of the Thomas H. & Mary Williams Shoemaker Fund.

Transcript

0:04

Opening night of the show, people spilled out onto the sidewalk because so many people had shown up. All different folks coming together, having conversation about this incredible author and her vision for how we can survive this time that we're in. Hey, you You're listening to a mini episode of The Seed, Conversations for Radical Hope. Today's guest is Lisa Graustein Lisa is a lifelong Quaker, an educator, a solo mom, and an artist. Lisa has spent years working with teens in schools and in Quaker spaces, leading young friends programs and worshiping across the wide spectrum of the Religious Society of Friends. These days, she works as a facilitator and trainer in diversity, equity, and inclusion. Lisa, what are you making these days? So I want to tell you about this project that just wrapped up. I'm a potter and I do lots of other kinds of crafty things. And so I teach classes sometimes at this local center that sells handmade goods by folks locally. And then I have friends who opened up a queer radical bookstore. And we did a joint project between both places around Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler and invited community members to make art inspired by the book. And we had an art show. We had a book talk. And in between there was space for people just to explore the themes of Parable of the Sower, which while it was written in 1993, is set in 2024. Octavia Butler was completely right on in predicting what was going to be happening. Her protagonist kind of offers us a way out. It was everything that is fundamentally awesome about my neighborhood here in Boston. It was a huge range of folks who made art, who showed up to the different events. All the conversations were about how do we work together to address the deep systemic problems while also being joyful and creative in our community. At least half, if not more, of the pieces in the show were made with some or entirely from previously used materials. One artist, my friend Liliana, she takes those little like countertop tile samples you can get if you're going to go pick out a countertop for your house. and makes three-dimensional art that looks different depending on the perspective that you're looking at it. Another person had taken old upholstery fabric and made this fabric pouch that you could open that had beaded and woven into it different aspects of the story and the book. Opening night of the show, people spilled out onto the sidewalk because so many people had shown up. All different folks coming together, having conversation. about this incredible author and her vision for how we can survive this time that we're in. So that's just given me so much joy and we're gonna keep going and we're making protest art together as groups of people. It's continuing to have this whole other life in our community. And then the other art that is just really fun right now is I was invited to be part of a show called Night Lights as a potter. So making things that can radiate light at nighttime. some of the pieces I've been working on for that, if you picture a bowl but inverted, so a dome with holes punched through it so a candle can be set underneath it and light can come out through it. They're different sizes and they're in arcing swirls down the sides of the bowl. They might look like flowing water, they might look like tentacles, they might look like branches, but the clay is pretty thick and I glaze it with a shiny glaze. When the light shines through, Not only do you get all these circles of light on your wall and ceiling, but the inside of the circles that are punched out have some depth to them. The way that light refracts, is that the right word? And shines through in different ways. So it might feel like being under a canopy of trees on a sunny day. It might feel like being underwater. you Because you and I always talk about art, I was thinking about how to connect that to these themes around love and power. There's something metaphorically very powerful about a bowl with holes in it and how that's not a defect, but to me what love feels like. It's a container to hold something, but it's got so much space for things to move through. If I try to hold love tight and keep it confined, it gets distorted. If I don't have any way to hold it, It dissipates and moves out. I know one of the other King quotes we talked about maybe talking about this podcast is one he has about the relationship between love, power, and justice. Their relationship in part is the ability to hold but with motion, with things to flow in and out with different sizes and shapes. Able to move it in such a way that each time I look at it, I have a new perspective and a new orientation. and invites a new way of thinking or moving. That is another project I'm getting to work on right now that is really fun and near the solstice to think about what it is to create light in the night. The show will be during Samhain, during the end of October, beginning of November when it's starting to get very dark. Well, I love hearing about those art projects, Lisa. I've seen your art. I have a bowl that you've made me with holes in it. Thank you for sharing. So exciting. How do people see your artwork, Lisa? have an Instagram page, a lot of my pottery. It's just my name, it's Lisa Graustein Thank you. So what are you creating right now? What are you creating that's bringing you joy or a new possibility? Right. I'm on the precipice of starting a new genre of hip hop. Yes. Called the Anthropocene, which takes seriously the impact of hip hop on climate, sure the natural world, but also social, political. Yeah, yeah, yeah Wasn't really ready to give it up needed time a on my plate whole lot of state lot on my mind Since my dad died, somewhere inside still need to cry But because of my pride, emotions high, pressure applies Diamonds all in time and how can you trust someone who moves alone? Who's annihilin', carried in wounds at your tune? Who carries your honor and respect? Who's telling all the press? Who's collecting all your checks? Who gon' clean up all your mess? I'm judgmental, sentimental, principal pencil in this rental Skin it's in use, unapologetically hopeful, cynical Chemically violent, overly honest, in love with the season that leaves I'm elemental, the proudest uncle Taking pride in the tides that bind Alongside all the tides that rise What's worse than inconvenient truth or appropriate lies Prayer for both sides You can't pray for both sides Pray you ain't wrong, pray you ain't right Pray for the brightest days or pray for the dopest nights pray for both sides Pray you reach the mountain top Or pray you find a river that gives you everything you never got can't for both sides Pray to win the war, pray for peace pray to move to the burbs or pray for some safer streets. would think there were prayers for you and me. I pray for us both, so now we'll have to wait and see. The Anthropocene is this awareness of the geologic era that we're in that has been impacted by humans. And I've just been a hip hop artist for years. I've thought a lot about music that brings an awareness to our responsibility to our interconnectedness with the natural world and to one another, to the stars, to everything. As a hip hop artist, I'm also like, it's got to have swag to it, Lisa. You I could say. I saved the sharks. It's light is dark. Got to save the, you know, I could do that, but I wouldn't be able to listen to myself for very long, you know? So it's gotta be swaggy. I got to show off my lyricism. got, cause that's also just the part of hip hop. And I've just come to a place where I'm making some things that I feel really excited about sharing on so many levels. I'm also writing a play with my sister about siblinghood. If blood is thicker than water, then swimming it. It's what this play is called. Provocative. And it's really a beautiful chance to get to connect with my sister. We live together with her partner and in a generational household. Their child and my mother. And we just love each other so much. When I think about justice, love, work. Pink talks a lot about brothers and sisters, right? Like there's a way that the idea of siblinghood really undergirds conversations and efforting for justice. Like that's our, that's your family, you know? Yeah, we're hoping our play just helps people with siblings, fills whatever they need to fill around it, whether it brings them joy or it's complicated and such, but also just in the human family to really see each other as resource and places to cultivate belonging. Right. Love and hope. So those are some art. Anthrapocene and... Blood is thicker than water. Right? And I just, this last part, you're talking about siblings. I was like, right, if we actually saw every human being as our sibling, every social problem we have would disappear. Cause romantic partners may come and go, but my sister is always going to be my sister. Always. Right? Which means I'm in a forever relationship with someone. And I love my sister deeply. We talk every day. I know not everyone has that sibling relationship, but that's beautiful, Dwight. Thank you, you too. uh Thank you for listening to this mini episode of The Seed, Conversations for Radical Hope. What spoke to you in this episode? Contact me directly by email, podcast at Pindlehill.org. That's podcast at Pindlehill.org. You and I can also connect through Pindlehill's online worship time. I attend this virtual Quaker meeting on the last Friday of the month, which begins at 8.30 a.m. Eastern time. For login details, visit Pendlehill.org slash worship. Our podcast is a project of Pendlehill. We're located in Wallingford, Pennsylvania on the traditional territory of the Lenny Lenape people. This mini episode of The Seed was produced by Peterson Toscano, who also co-hosts the Quakers Today podcast. Our theme music is the I Rise project by Reverend Reda Morgan and Bennett Kuhn produced by Astronautical Records. Other music comes from EpidemicSound.com and you also heard some music that I created. If you find these conversations meaningful, consider supporting our work financially. To do so, visit Pindohill.org slash donate. These seeds could not be planted without you. Let's co-create a world filled with cooperation, reciprocity, and love.